Erika Ozsda's interview

The one who set up these images is called...

323 Kbyte	for strangers	Marianne Miklós.
	for the branch	Mari Miklós.
	for her friends	Mikimari.

"When a director knows how to cut, how to work as a cameraman or actor, that is a good thing to do. However, it is not his/her task to know about all the film branches. The task of the director would be to choose well established professionals to surround him/her and direct them according to his/her own talent."

She contributed to the following films (not aiming at completeness):

Why did not you become a musician like your parents?

I stopped playing the violin after seven years of learning but at the age of 16 I realised what a fool I was and began to play the flute. I even completed the Conservatory! But the 5-6 years of omission could not be caught up any more. Why, your mouth does not function and your fingers do not move as they are supposed to do. Despite the fact that I practised really very diligently at that time. Yet, when I listened to the others playing, I knew that I will never be able to perform what I feel deep inside. I would have made it on with pleasure had I not had such a disadvantage. This is the reason why I never presented myself at the School for Musical Arts.

Your parents are violinists. What did they say to all this? Did they weep?

Oh, no, no! They were always pleased with what I wanted to do. They never ever forced me to do anything - unfortunately. At twenty I wanted to be a musical editor but I could not find a job. Of course, Dad told the story to everyone, how much problem her poor little daughter has. This is how the news reached Zsolt Döme, whom they played music together with. Zsolt introduced me to Annamária Komlóssy, who was a great name as a cutter in Hungary. Today she live in America. She suggested me to go to the film factory as an assistant cutter and if I keep on wanting to be a musical editor, then I will swap later. At any case, it is easier once I am in. From this time on she tried to pave my road. Certainly I finished the college as well.

Is it natural for a cutter having to finish it?

That's a good question, I have no idea. You certainly need some gift. Never ever will a person be a good cutter lacking a sense for rhythm and taste. The film school was useful because we could learn film aesthetics, art, taste, anything from formidable teachers like Mrs. Fövény, Mrs. Szöllõsy, Emil Petrovics, Károly Nemes. The head of class, Mrs. Ferenc Széchenyi, Médi also tried to educate us. Surely you can call the attention to certain things, but to actually teach someone how to cut - in my mind is not possible. It is not irrelevant however, behind whom you sit or whom you assist. You can acquire tricks stealthily. I learnt a lot of manual tricks from Annamari. She is extremely quick and skilful. I have never seen anybody to work like her. Everything was handy for her. Whenever the director or she had an idea in their minds, she was able to demonstrate it at once. Time is not spent by her gluing all the time. I learnt most of the directors. I began my career with Gyuri Gát. We invented things together with Péter Fábry, who was the director of Térmetszés (Space Intersection) and Nyom nelkul (No Clues). Unfortunately he is not in the branch any more, which is a pity for he was a formidably talented guy.

What have you learnt for four years at the college after all? Is it announced on the first class that this is the machine here and that is the celluloid, this is how to thread and there you have the screen?

This is exactly which has no need to be told. Eleven of us came from the television and six form the film studio. Some of us, not many, have cut films before, and the rest was experienced assistant cutters as well. But many have never touched a 35 mm film before, so they really did not know how to thread it into the cutting table. They had much to do with 16 mm films before, however. Cutters of today do not much know it, because it slowly goes out of fashion. That is, fashion is not the proper term for it... The future does not lie in it.

What does it depend on, how a particular cutter cuts a particular scene? Let's take a practical example. A man ascends the steps, rings the bell, a woman opens the door, the man enters and hands flowers over.

So you think it is quite simple.

On the contrary. You sit in class, the twelve of you and I think all of you would start differently.

You bet. It depends on what is important for you. How you read the script. The scene can be cut to be tense, for expectation, so that you would want to know who is coming. Or you can cut in a way that it would be imperceptible just like a process would take place the simpler the better. You can also make it modern if the film is like that. The main character jumps in. You can easily omit the opening of the door for it is irrelevant. But you can cut it for movements as well. There are no regulations. The only thing which matters that cutting should serve the film. I take precautions, even when cutting a door closing, not to cut it out of routine, out of habit. You need to play with the material.

When anything can be cut anyhow, when there are no regulations, why then people say "Hugh, how bad this cut was!". Can you cut a close-up on a close-up?

Well, yes, there are some unwritten laws which you better know. They are not for keeping them unchanged, however. If I mentioned some, I contradicted to myself at once. It is not fortunate for example to cut two wide angle shots on top of each other. Or two second plans (semi-close shots), for that matter, when the cut is similar, for it appears as if the two characters swapped their places. But when one stands in front of the other, it can be good. Maybe your intention is just to make the audience startle: "My God, what happened? Are they exchanged?". You have to dare playing.

Is it customary in this country for the director to tell the cutter, where to cut and he/she makes it?

I do not like it. There are many methods. But when I say that I do not like this or that I do not necessarily mean it was wrong. Maybe the director and the cutter would argue a bit and at the end very good things might come out.

What can they argue about?

Everything. Anything! Let's stick to your example before: which of the two persons should I see first and for how long? What is more important? Who is more important? Do I want to stay with the man all the time, or do I simply receive him from inside: I can only work - but this is not the only possibly true and redeeming solution -, when I view the material with or without the director and make a masterprint of it. This means selection. We select the useful material so that each sequence would have 2 maximum three versions and not 5 or 6. Which falls out is not needed any more. Before, cutters worked simultaneously with shooting, independently. Then something happened among the cutters... maybe, because at the college a class was started in every three years and everybody became a cutter. Almost in a compulsory manner. The branch got diluted and directors lost their faith. Therefore they sat into the studio with the cutter and they began to cut the film together. Right in sequence, starting from the beginning. There is some of us, however, more and more I believe, who begin to work already during the shooting just like in America. We know the taste of the director more or less since everybody insists on his/her tested cutter. Therefore some things need no discussion. Many things got decided in the projection room. The director indicates there which moments of the actor he likes, which need to be in the film. In my mind it is a very bad method - most probably a Hungarian speciality - if the director begins to dictate. When he/she tells you that this one will last from here to there and we will cut it here.

If the director learnt how to deal with the cutting table, could the cutter be disposed of?

Exactly. At these instances the cutter is nothing else but an executive staff. Thanks God, this slowly becomes past. More and more like to show their original thoughts. And have the faith to do so. Without being over-confident, this is a sort of courage. When I cut the scene, I take the responsibility for my own taste. I am exposed to the possibility that the director would say: "Well, this is all very interesting, but the film is not about that. Start again!". It is another question that if you know your director you would never commit such a failure.

Which of the directors dare to leave it at you?

Entirely? ... György Gát. I am obliged to him for he made me to cut like this. Before, I did not work like this, myself. Him, as we all know, is a very agile man, who makes twenty different things at the same time and therefore it was very convenient for him if I worked independently. He simply forced me into this situation. Fortunately. Sometimes he just came in once a week to have a look on what I have done. Many times we had rows... we shouted at each other! I had to cry for if you cut a scene, from that very moment you feel it like yours. And then he comes and sees it differently. Intervenes! Then I had to realise, that he is the director after all, he bears the responsibility and in a given case it is also him who can say a good word. I had to learn the job with all the compromises.

The directors had to make compromises as well?

Of course! On one hand, they need to bear with me - not a simple task, for I do not give it up easily. On the other hand, anyone who wants to work with me has to be just as open to me as I am to them.

What you need to have if you want to win in such an argument? A sense for dramaturgy?

That you need anyway, but let me correct you: it does not really matter whether you "win" or not. Certainly, to gain a battle is a good feeling, but equally nice is to hear if the director has something smart to say. The most important is the useful idea, regardless of who said it. It has to benefit the film. During cutting many things might change. You can play patience with the scenes.

Can you change them in spite of the script?

Oh, yes. If the scenarist has a genial idea and we shoot it accurately, it is not necessary that it works on the film as well. It might be tasty when read, yet in the film it is overdone. The stuff would reject it. Or, if you leave it in, the stuff would stuck. Vilmos Zsigmond directed once the film called The Long Shadow... well, I do not know any more, how many sequences we tried at the beginning. Robi Koltai once had an appearance in a formidable scene with Michael York, yet as it happened, that part where this sequence fit in was thrown out of the film altogether.

Did it happen after this that he invited you to be the cutter in his film We Never Die?

During the shooting we became extremely good friends. At that time he did not know that I will cut him out of the film. Yet ever since when he introduces me to someone else he would tell this story at once. It is worth scrutinising roller titles. It happens that the name of the actor is still on yet his scene is out.

When Vilmos Zsigmond first called you...

It was a nightmare! I had a good deep sleep in the night when the phone rang. Though I could hear his name but I confess, in my slumbering state of half asleep I believed to distinguish a female voice. I did not realise! He said he makes a film and that he would like me as the cutter of The Long Shadow. I said this is very nice but I have no time for it and I suggested someone else. While talking, I suddenly realised who he really was and there, in the dark night I blushed like a schoolgirl and my heart began to beat like hell... After this I tried to swerve the thread of talk so that he could feel how perfectly well I know who he was and it was a great honour for me that he chose me. A week later Uncle Gyuri Illés summoned me in the section of cameramen where Vilmos Zsigmond and János Edelényi, his producer waited for me. They began to persuade me to accept the assignment. I did not agree yet, asked for time to think, for I was engaged. I was just cutting Death Roads and Angels with Zoltán Kamondi. It was an excellent possibility, I find him very gifted, liked to work with him and it was a difficult choice. The temptation was great, yet self reproach even greater. I told Kamondi first what an offer I have got. Today when we meet we still greet each other. It also happened that we asked each other how the other was.

How Vilmos Zsigmond reached you?

Through Uncle Gyuri Illés, he was his student. It was important for the cutter to speak English and well,... I think I had a pretty good fame.

Whom did you work with in The Long Shadow?

There were four Hungarians, the cameraman Gábor Szabó among them. The two main actors were Liv Ulmann and Michael York. We shot in Israel and I myself was there since cutting began simultaneously - as I like to work like this. I worked with two assistants in Tel Aviv, certainly behind schedule, as shooting is a quicker process than cutting. They shot an immense amount of material, though I know by now that even more than this is possible. Subsequent work was done in Hungary, Vili left in the meantime, then he came back and told me what did he like and what he didn't.

When has the cutter an experience of success?

In one of the Linda series there was a scene with go-carts. I struggled a lot with it because it was badly shot. At the end, Gyuri Gát congratulated, he was surprised how much I could bring out of it. This is an experience of success.

Where do you know from whether a scene is good?

I feel it. By simple scenes I begin to work knowing what I want and where from and where to I want to get. If I hated this word a little less I would say I make it out of routine. There are scenes with only one take which cannot be improved or impaired. At truly difficult scenes, however, I am excited. Am I able to make it? I feel sometimes, it won't go, I even go home. But at the end I struggle as long as I realise how to begin. At these times I forget about everything else. This is the moment which is worth of everything. From this point on I don't stand up any more, heaven knows how many hours am I able to work. I am not willing to deal with anything else save the images. Later, when I can see that the image will work, I make the sound. My colleague Éva Kármentõ said once, she cannot imagine to cut without sound. But there are no prescriptions! When - if I can show off like this - the inspiration comes, I can hear the voice, I can hear the music. I imagine all the effects, leave room for them and I don't have anything else to do but go to the Sound Department and order them.

How much a cutter can assist the film? To what extent can he/she improve it?

Much. At least this is what I believe and hope for. I do not belong to those who announce, having seen a movie, that the film was cut bad or good, or the director was bad or good. The two are inseparable. It is quite possible that the film has no drift. We can see it day by day but you never can tell whether it is the cutter or the director to be blamed.

Is it possible to bring something good out of a bad material?

Something better at maximum. A good cutter views the material, sees the best variation in it and brings it out.

How did you get near Menahem Golan?

After The Long Shadow I spent several years in Israel, where I met the boss of Israfilm. He said there would be some work with Golan but I should not believe that I will be his cutter, merely set up the material coarsely. To facilitate the work of the future cutter. It was an enormous series of actions, the beginning sequence of the film. Golan shoots everything, he is able to spend an immense amount of material. He did not want to believe that this kind of action sequence can be cut by a woman at all. Action films are cut by men per determination. In America there are a lot more male cutters than here.

Why did the branch get filled up with women?

In Hungary I do not know any male feature film cutter beside Péter Timár. Formerly there were many. Male directors say that it is better to work with female cutters for they have a better ability for empathy. Golan was surprised as well. The local producer suggested to cut the material in a finer version. It was still too long but had same taste to it. Good directors can see even if the scene is not perfect yet, whether it will work or not. I made it and they bought me for the film. It is called Deadly Heroes. I do not even know if it was presented back here or not. I am proud of it and I like the film of Golan, but he is the very first director of my life, whom I never was able to form a kind of personal contact with.

Did he call again?

Yes, it was agreed that I go to Moscow for four month for his next film but before the departure a phone call came that they cannot make the actor available and the shooting was postponed.

Which might have been the best news for Róbert Koltai, who asked you again after We Never Die to be his cutter again. How did you like to work with him?

Excellent! In the first days in my leisure time I attended the shooting, keep fingers crossed for them. Then, of course, I moved into the cutting room.

Did you ask during shooting to take some more of this or that?

Yes, because if you have a scene from only one take, it is almost impossible to cut. Or it turns out that the material is too long and you do not have a white mouse for it.

???

Pardon! This is a cut - say - to cut between two heads. A flower, a mug or bottle. It has not much to do with the scene but it works. The matter is still a little clumsy yet better than without. The only important thing that the audience did not notice that it has nothing to do there. If you have no white mouse, there are several possibilities. Supplementary shooting, drastic shortcut, or the scene is simply omitted.

What is the atmosphere like on the shooting of the current film Szamba?

Italian. Robi says I have an impact on him so that his stomach cramps, therefore he keeps on talking. You need to overshout him, drastically shut up. Then the shouting shifts into constant roar. We enjoy ourselves extremely. Today we even pretend to be Italians. I can believe what people think passing in front of our doors on the corridor! Robi wants to honour the memory of Pista Kiss with this film, who was his college classmate. An extremely great talent but someone who could not stand superficiality and helplessness. He went bankrupt and committed suicide. The story is of course enriched with the stories of Robi and many other actors. His generation would no extremely well, who interprets whom. The film goes about country actors known by everybody.

Is the director rigorous against his actor-self?

Oh, yes. Robi is a phenomenal fellow. As he is originally not a director, he tells all the time what he feels, what he wants to achieve through a special sequence. He trusts me how do I do it. He doesn't know how to do it, he just feels something is good for his purpose or not, whether he means like this or not.

Before Szamba you lived in Israel for three years. Did you manage to get closer to the film industry there?

Not really. I tried hard, but I am not able to promote and manage myself. I knew everybody worth to talk to yet I could not achieve that when a cutter is dropped I would strike their minds. In Israel I made a few documentaries and worked with Golan.

Did you come back because you could not get a job?

It has many reasons but certainly this was among them. On one hand I did not do everything what I could have done. On the other hand I like to be there very much, I like the mentality of the people there, their merriness, the sunshine, but it also turned out very soon that there are important thing sin my life which I do not want to be far away for a long time. I mean my parents first of all.

As you did not manage to break through in Israel, how could you get back into the branch back home?

I returned relatively quickly because three years is not such a long time. Maybe people have not forgotten me. This was one of the reasons. The second reason was that I have friends here whom I can easily call and say "Hi, I'm back if you have something for me, just tell, right?". Not like in Israel, where I had to ask this favour from strangers. In this country my name is not unfamiliar, I can be part of their thoughts. Since then I worked with Mari Soós and now with Robi.

As there are less and less opportunity to work in a feature film, did you ever think of being retrained, to learn new things?

Computerised cutting fancies me for a long time. I am sure the future is this. If I am up to date and the hardware is no problem any more, this would be a chance for getting a job, too. I am interested in any kind of technology, especially the computer. I fell in love with it. I trained myself in a self-made way so that I assigned different tasks to myself. For me, this is another excellent toy. I adore playing. Playing cards, dice, chess, computer, everything! Cutting work is fine because you have a chance to play.